I support Israel

Yaa i also hold the same view and infact now its time that major countries should come togther and launch an all out attack on these organisations .

spot on. well said!

Hi Yakov, I often read your blog and enjoy your insights. I have to say that times like these make me feel proud to be an Israeli more then being a Java developer:).

Israel is not a contry, it is only a part of USA. Palistine will be freedom in the near future from USA.

Nidhal, Modern Israel was formed when the territory was handed over to Jewish settlers from British control a few years after the end of world war two. There was little or no involvement by the US, to my knowledge. Historically there has never been a county called Palestine, as this territory has since the fall of the Roman empire always been part of a larger controlling entity or empire. Interestingly enough the name Palestine was coined by the Romans in an attempt to crush the Jewish population of the area at the time, so that they would not rebel against the Romans and become a more integrated part of the empire. Now I am not saying that the people who live in Gaza & the West Bank should not have their own independent country separate from Israel. They should, however both Israel & the Palestinians both need to recognise each other. Currently Israel recognises the Palestinians and would like to support a viable county (im sure Israel would love to put money in to other areas other than having to defend itself from terrorists!), but Hamas, who represent the Palestinian population do not recognise Israel, further to this it is widely acknowledged that Yasser Arafat set up the whole political structure so it would serve him, which is why there have been continuing problems with the Palestinian authority since he passed away. Further to this Hamas state in their aims that they wish to destroy Israel. Nidhal, when you make statements like the one you have, please try and understand the whole situation first and understand why things are like they are, then perhaps we can have a grown up and constructive solution to the problems that plague this part of the world. See this http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article.jsp?id=2&debateId=97&articleId =3727 and do a google for this history of this area if you don’t believe me.

The politics of appeasement is over. Israeli response is fully justified. If you listen to what hizbolla/hamas and their Iranian and Syrian masters are saying (I am refering to the World War 3 comment) you might wish for a good old times of crusades. How can people of Lebanon and Palestine not want to live a better life?

Terrorism should be eradicated asap but how will you justify Israel attack killing 10 civilians for 1 militant ?

Would you happily give up one of your family member just because Israel wants to get rid of terrorist ?

I support end of terrorism but at the same time do not support killing of civilians.

To Kabraworld:

What you're trying to do is called demagogy:

1. Israel had never set the goals to kill 10 civilians for 1 militant

2. Out of all countries, Israel is the last to blame for killing civilians during wars. In most cases they try to prevent deaths of civilians by warning local people about upcoming attacks. Unfortunately, terorists are spreaded among civilians, and Israeli rockets are not as smart as they should have been.

3. Killing of civilians is by far the main method of terrorists. Not only they do not try to prevent it, but they are looking for it by blowing themselves up in a shoping mall or in a disco club packed with 13-15 years old. Or by directing a plane into a non-military skyscraper. Terrorists are dangerous animals and have to be destroyed.

I agree: "Terrorists are dangerous animals and have to be destroyed".

I do not agree: "Israeli rockets are not as smart as they should have been" and thus justifying killing of civilians.

Do not make me look like a person supporting terrorism !!! Thats not a good defense to prove your point.

Terrorism should be eradicated asap but how will you justify Israel attack killing 10 civilians for 1 militant ?

These are the ploys used by these terrorist and they seems like proper civilian till the time they strike and so its not possible to exactly be able to pin Point these guys.

• So dont blame army for that ."A terrorist does not have a Terrorist written on their head , but a army men have and so they are easy targets "

kabraworld statement Would you happily give up one of your family member just because Israel wants to get rid of terrorist ?

• I am from India and we lost hunreads of our Indian Family members in Mumbai .

Today, the terrorists put the bomb under the seat of the bus in Bangalore, and not somewhere at the military base: http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200607211460.htm

They are purposely targeting civilians.

Hehe, the world is racing towards annihilating ISLAM as it is.... Good luck Muslims..

By the way, I'm the GOD and let there be 72 freaking virgins for all those good for nothings.

hehe

Let's attack them with with our rockets and then hide behind women and children. We will then go to heaven and have 72 virgins each..

Oh, you psychos. Oh, you cowards..

THINK mother F's

Why is Lebanon so worried? Allah will take care of everyting. We attack, they attack, and then muslims win.

What was it? Were'nt muslims enjoying on 9/11. It's time for the other religions of the world to enjoy. These suckers WILL get a thousand year WAR with NOOOOOO respite in sight.

Let's get it over with.

ISLAM needs to be eradicated just like the PLAGUE was.

Allah and his 72 virgins, what fun?

This "FUCKING" saint literally never thought this would be BULLSHIT in a more technical world.

oH, idiot. wHAT fUN?

Civilians MUST be killed in Lebanon. Else there is no respite. Muslims must be massacared. A Genocide of muslims is welcome.

The world will be thankful to Israel. That would be a fair game.

Remember 9/11 arseholes...

Lebanon has a substantial non-muslim population, as israel also has a substantial arab population. Genonide either way is neither welcome or desirable. Eradicating extremism on all sides is. While I support Israels defence I do not support all its actions in its war on terrorism. You cannot fight terrorism with weapons -- history has shown that so many times that it's frightening that it's still done. Destroying the entire infrastructure of Lebanon will not help -- terrorism is a complex beast as just a handful of terrorists can cause a lot of damage. Israels bombing of Lebanon is like pissing in your trousers to keep warm in winter. Israel occupied most of Lebabon for years and didn't manage to eradicate the PLO or Hamas.

The only way to beat terrorism to ensure that it has no supporters and thus has a hard time recruiting. This is essentially what happened in Norther Ireland. The NI situation is not resolved to the advantage of either side but the terrorists have no popular support any more, leaving only politics as an arena of conflict. You can't bomb terrorists away as the pain you cause to innocent civilians breeds more terrorists.

Why do some terrorists organisations have support amongst parts of the islamic community in Lebanon? Because it is a poor country and they do a lot of community and relief work. I think that one of the biggest mistakes we in the West make is that we think that toppling dicatators and provding some initial aid (such as rebuilding public infrastructure) is sufficient. What we do is often just about sufficient to maintain a puppet government, but we do not improve the quality of life of the average joe; we do the heavy work and then leave the population open to propaganda from terrorists groups.

If I was an Iraqi then I might have supported the toppling of Saddam and been glad for that, but would not (at a personal level) be happy if my house were destroyed and I was given no compensation or assistance to rebuild by those that did it. If some group turned up to help me then I'd be grateful. If those that bombed my house and place of employment did nothing for me then I'd be pretty upset at them even though they might have helped my country. I'd blame them for my personal hardship. If we create hardshop for civilians at a personal level then we need to help them otherwise someone else will, breeding terror and hatred. it's only human.

Much of the hardship in the Levant area of the middle east has been caused by the displacement of people by the Western powers when Israel was created anb by the Arab-Israeli war. The desperation amongst some groups led to the civil war in Lebanon. None of this was the fault of the Israelis, but by not providing sufficient assitance and aid to displaced civilians (firstly from the Western powers and more recently Israel -- for example while building their defensive wall), we have maintained a level of poverty in that region that has turned it into a breeding ground for hatred. In many countries and citites (e.g. New York and London), jews, muslims, christians and members of other faiths live alongside each other. It IS possible!

Mimi, I hear you. But the problem is that what works for the West (Northern Ireland) does not work for the East that simply hates Israel, USA, GB, France (regardless of the fact that French are trying to please them in every possible way). These are two different worlds.

For example, re-read the responses to this post from Aadha Bullah, ALLAH HU AKBAR, ALLAH, and ISRAELI. They are actually made by the same person (Chowdary Thammineedi).

Can you discuss anything with such a guy? I doubt it...

All forms of terrorism are fuelled by extremism and hatred is a universal feeling. NI was just an example, but it is not actually all that different when you study the root causes. There are plenty of catholics in Northern Island that hate Britain and want all protestants out of the north. Thousands have died on both sides over decades, both in Ireland, England, and even in Germany, where IRA terrorists targeted night clubs frequented by British army personnel.

The root of the problem is the same -- a dispute over perceived historical rights to land, and a religious divide that is exploited by terrorist groups. It's the same story of perceived repression fuelling hatred and violence. NI has calmed down in recent years because the moderates have won over the extremists and improvements in the collective and relative standard of living of catholics and protestants has given less room for the kind of hatred that drives people to kill people living in the next village. 20 years ago it seemed to be an impossibly deadlocked situation with a never ending cycle of violence. When individuals are feeling OK, they don't spend so much time trying to bomb their way to a new life where the grass will be greener, and all that. Despite all the efforts of politicians from many countries, the biggest contributor to peace in NI was reducing unemployment in the region through massive investment (while withdrawing troops), which gave people hope. There is still disagreement and resentment, but terrorism has largely be quashed. Moderatism has beaten out extremism.

Israel/Lebanon is worse primarily because the poverty gap and desperation at a personal level is greater because every time people try to rebuild their lives someone comes along and tears/blows things apart or forces them to move (on all sides). I'm sure that had Britain sent tanks into Northern Ireland and started bull-dozing catholic homes and driving catholics into the south then the situation could have been as desperate as the current situation in Lebanon/Gaza/Israel. A major difference in the middle east is, of course Syria and Iran, but they have their own religious agendas and their voices would have less weight amongst moderates if people didn't perceive them as their friends (which they are not -- they are simply fuelling hatred for their own internal political agendas). Syria and Iran keep telling people that their poverty (and unemployment) is Israel's fault (and Britain's, France's, and the US's, for defining the borders of the nation states in the region). Reduce the poverty and fewer will listen to them.

Israel achieved peace with Egypt and we see that most arab voices are blaming Hezbollah for starting the current situation. We really need to support these moderates through investment and helping them establish adequate security (Lebanon's army is/was incapable of doing anything about the Hezbollah militia) and we need to improve the conditions for refugees and others that have lost their homes. Thousands are still living in refugee camps after the Arab-Israeli war. It's through support of moderates and investment in these countries that the extremists will be eradicated -- not through bombs and inconveniencing (or killing) civilians. Sending just a few troops and fixing some infrastructure doesn't work (look at Iraq -- Saddam was toppled quickly but there were insufficient troops to enforce law and order quickly, and the result is that the initial support that the US had was lost) -- the job needs to be done properly just like the rebuilding of Germany and Japan after WWII. They hated us too once. We invested massively and rebuilt those countries that we bombed and get along well now.

I agree that we cannot discuss with extremists, but we *can* defuse them (no pun intended). A jew and an arab in New York can disagree but they don't spend their lives plotting how to kill each other. Likewise, greek cypriots in London shop at turkish cypriot stores (I have a greek cypriot great uncle there and was surprised to see this). Where I live there are bosnians and serbs living close together As these are the same people that once lived in areas of intense hatred, it must be possible to achieve coexistence.

You can't negotiate with a terrorist or an extremist, and you can't make them go away by bombing them, as the civilian casualties that necessarily result fuel hatred leading to more terrorists. The only thing that you can do is alienate them by attacking the perceived unfairness that breeds them.

Anyway, enough brain-dumping (sorry about the length -- I'm too lazy to shorten it... Back to "our" world and some peaceful Java coding :)

Nice writings, Mini!

A couple of points.

1. Lots and lots of dollars were sent to Palistine from the USA and other countries, but the goverment is corrupted there and Yasser Arafat's wife was enjoing $100K monthly allowance while their people were living in powerty. Hamas build hospitals and schools. How would you explain regular people from Gaza that Hamas is bad?

2. You can't use the same recipies for Muslim fundamentalists and NI catholics.

3. A Jew and and Arab can live peacefully here in New York, because they have different priorities: business and success are the main driving forces in this society while religion is secondary.

4. If you are interested in reading intelligent Arab discussions, check out this blog: http://sandmonkeyblog.com/

The way I and most of Israel sees it (%95 support in last survey for the current operation) we had several goals when we lunched this attack. As you might remember Israel occupied Lebanon in 1982 in order to create a buffer zone to avoid terrorist activities along its northern border from the Palestinian refugee camps that were boiling over there. As a result of the 1982 war Israel was waste deep in the Lebanese mud and only in 2000 Prime minister Ehud Barak decided to pull out of there once and for all. The only thing is that he did so in a cowardly manner in one night while the Hezbollah was asleep. The problem with that approach was that although it cost no Israeli lives it was perceived as a victory for Hezbollah and “the resistance”.

Since then many Arab extremist groups thought that Israel was weak and unwilling to fight for its rights and people. As a result of that both Hamas and Hezbollah lifted their ugly head with the false propaganda that Israel can and will be defeated. Since 2000 there were two successful and several attempted kidnappings from the Hezbollah and now a successful one from the Hamas. We in Israel want to say to those groups NO MORE. There is a price to pay for your arrogance and unfortunately Lebanon as a sovereign state along with Hezbollah should pay for not defending its border like stated in the 1559 UN resolution.

Our government knows that many civilian lives are in danger and that’s why they always warn the population so they could leave before any attack. How much more humane can you be with the enemy? Our goals in this conflict are: 1. Re-establish deterrence. Let them know that Israeli lives are not cheap and that there is a price to pay for their actions. 2. Bring back the kidnapped soldiers. 3. Drive them back to the Litani river so they won’t threaten our northern border and let the Lebanese army take control of all their territory once and for all.

That’s it. No hidden agendas like some might want to think. No conspiracies and no bulls**t. All we want is a quite border with our neighbours but they seem to remind us that we don’t live in Europe or North America but the Middle East and in the Middle East you are either the predator or the pray.

the media perceive the war on hezbollah in a fragemented erroneous way. there's rarely an analysis of how related to the suni shiite dispute over which religious group will be more powerfull in the ME. teh hezbollah offensive is the iranian shiite offensive. israel is doing the dirty work for the sunis,. after destroyiong the hezbollah it will have to fight the sunis. i agree on the politics of hatred: if the arabs do it, israle should never do it. children should be taught to love and not to hate.

Saying, "We are attacking such-and-such a place, so please evacuate" is a means of ethnic cleansing. If you have racial ties to Israel, I can hardly blame you for supporting it. But let's not fall into the trap of pretending that everything that occurs with a low-end rocket launcher is "terrorism" and everything that occurs with an F-16 is "the struggle against terrorism". That has become a very consistent propaganda pattern.

Dead children are dead children are dead children.

Yakov, your point 3 really sums up my main point: To win the war against terrorism we have to change people's priorities. Not exactly easy to do, but...

Regarding point 2: Of course, all conflicts are different (and this one has a much wider global effect than others) but hatred is hatred and people have basic fundamental needs (ref. Maslow) for well-being and safety that are similar wherever they are. If they are met I believe people can at least agree to coexist, even if they disagree on politics and religion. Terrorists have no respect for life wherever they are and whatever their cause is.

Regarding point 1: Yeah, we screwed up... We're good at that. We're almost always giving too much to the wrong people, or too little to the right people, within countries we are trying to help.

I think Arie wrote a good summary of the current situation and Israel's short-term goals. I support Israel's goals, although I'm concerned about how they will achieve them. Too many civilians have died, been injured, or lost their homes on both sides already, and that saddens me. Each injury and loss will have planted many fresh seeds of hatred and distrust. I just hope that this situation doesn't spiral out of control.

To Namehere:

You are absolutely right in saying that dead children are dead children, and both Israel and Hezbollah are equally guilty of killing kids regardless of what their reasoning was.

But in judging any country, one should use the same standards. I was just trying to imagine how would the USA respond if, say Mexicans would kidnap a couple of US soldiers and started consistently bomb Austin, Texas. We'd have lots and lots of dead children. Sorry, Mexico for this metaphor...

Here's an interesting interview about the psychology behind suicide bombings:

http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=5/d/030120061

Yakov,

(one last post)

A more serious and impartial review of research into the psychology and sociology of terrorism (and suicide bombers) can be found here (Libary of Congress).

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/Soc_Psych_of_Terrorism.pdf

It is particularly interesting as it was written just two years before 9/11.

I'm not an Arab nor a Muslim but I lived in a South East Asian(SEA) Muslim country for 26 years before coming to US for grad school 20 years ago and stayed. Let me say this that most Muslims in SEA in the 1980s' are fairly moderate till the Saudis and Iranians sent money to build mosque and fiery preachers to radicalize them. Effectively, the Middle Eastern brand of radical Islam are being franchised and exported around the world.

Go to this site and watch the interview by a Lebanese women (press the button at the bottom left corner): http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/

She'll give you a different perspective on the conflict, and the hatred in the Middle East

If someone thinks that the root of the Israeli-Arab conflict is that the muslims are sadistic subhuman scum without morality and that the Israeli are the ethical master race of virtue then so be it. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion. Fortunately I don't have to agree. My suggestions for some background info are the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Arab_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arab-Israeli_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_of_the_Arab-Israeli_conflict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

I think that arguments on the current crisis in Lebanon should be based more and more on facts and even on numbers. Historical horror stories of one individual have quite a limited weight as evidence when considering the overall conflict. And it should be clear to most of us that if the opposing side does not have a chance to have its say, then we are probably dealing with propaganda. I would like to remind fans of Brigitte Gabriela that Lebanese christians were not just innocent victims:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

I support Israel in the sense that I support its right to existence, but I do not support the current operation in Lebanon. Below are some of the reasons for my opinion.

Civilian casualties are in the hundreds for Lebanese and in the dozens for Israeli. Probably one third of the Lebanese civilian casualties are children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict

Lebanon is not equal to Hezbollah. Therefore destroying infrastructure of a whole country is not an acceptable reaction. Why would fighting against terrorism justify bombing residential areas, power plants, roads, harbours, bridges and everything? Lebanese coastline now suffers from an oil catastrophy thanks to the bombings.

Israeli strikes are not right-on-target surgigal strikes. Look at Beirut on 12th of July and 31st of July: http://cache.aftenposten.no/multimedia/archive/00433/APTOPIX_MIDEAST_FIG_43 3987s.jpg

I think that because the facts start to show that the Israeli reaction was out of proportion supporters of Operation Just Reward need some creative thinking for justification. I'm disappointed that for some the justification seems to be the claim that the muslims are less human than us and can therefore be killed like flies.

From Bibi Natanyahu's interbiew to British Television:

Historical horror stories of one individual have quite a limited weight as evidence when considering the overall conflict. And it should be clear to most of us that if the opposing side does not have a chance to have its say, then we are probably dealing with propaganda.

I support Israel's goals, although I'm concerned about how they will achieve them. Too many civilians have died, been injured, or lost their homes on both sides already, and that saddens me. Each injury and loss will have planted many fresh seeds of hatred and distrust.

Israel is the single largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid nearly one-third of the total direct bi-lateral aid. If we exclude Egypt whose disproportionate share of aid came as a result of agreements made with Israel at Camp David, and Columbia, which receives enormous aid to prosecute a brutal military campaign allegedly aimed at drug trafficking, Israel receives more than all of Latin America, the Caribbean, and Africa combined. That is, one of the richest countries in the world, a country of around 6 million people, receives more aid than two entire continents including some of the poorest regions in the world. This aid amounts to around $500 per year for every Israeli citizen and more if we exclude the Palestinian citizens of Israel who receive few if any benefits from the money (none of this aid goes directly to Palestinians living in the occupied territories). To take one other comparison, the US has put forward less than $300 million to fight AIDS in Africa. So roughly 10 times more money goes to Israel than goes to fight the greatest plague the earth has seen since the middle ages.From FY 1994 through FY 1998, Israel received $29 billion in waived loans. U.S. Foreign Assistance Act prohibits military assistance to any country which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights. The State Department, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, LAW , B’tselem, Al-Haq, and other human rights groups have all confirmed that in attempting to suppress the intifada Israel has employed collective punishments, home demolitions, detention without charges, torture of detainees, extra-judicial killings, and other violations of Palestinian human rights. Finally, the Proxmire amendment bans military assistance to any government that refuses to sign the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty and to allow inspection of its nuclear facilities, which Israel refuses to do. Presidential and Congressional indulgence of Israel has allowed it to respond to the Palestinian intifada with massively disproportionate force, escalating the conflict beyond any possibility of a peaceful resolution in the foreseeable future. Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion). 18 of the 92 pending arms sales transfers in the year 2000 were to Israel; Israel has the world’s largest fleet of F-16s outside the US, currently possessing 200 jets -- with a further 102 on order with American manufacturer Lockheed Martin; In June 2001 Israel again requested $800 million in supplementary US aid. This was originally pledged to cover the cost of the Israeli withdrawal from south Lebanon – in other words, Israel was being paid for complying with international law.

I say it's time to drop the(No More Fucking Aid) bomb on Isreal, supply aid and munitions to Palestinians, and let the games begin.

I'm not sure what are all these numbers have to do with the fact that civil people and kids on both sides are dying? You say let's the game begin - what are the rules of this game? As to dissapropriate force, hear this: American, French and Israeli were caught by some tribe and were told at the main gathering by the fireplace that each of them has one wish to fulfil before being killed. American asked for a glass of good wiskey, French ask for a nice glass of wine and Israeli ask to get kicked in the ass be the strongest man in a tribe. The tribe leaders were surprised, but called for the huge man who hit him so hard that Israeli flew for 30 meters. When he landed though, he pulled out the UZI from under his shirt and killed all men from the tribe. When American asked, why didn't you do it as soon as we got cought? The Israeli has answered,"I wanted my response to be considered appropriate".

What is Zionism? Is it Judaism? I think not. Zionist comes from the 19th century and refers to the people who wanted to create a homeland for the Jews. There is nothing wrong with that except they wanted and want the land known as Palestine. This is rediculous. In a nutshell, Zionists continue atrocious acts on Arabs reminiscent of Europeans murdering American Indians all in the name of conquering land. In lyrics taken from Ministry's...Stigmata...

You ran out of lies! You ran out of lies! Lies! Stronger than reason, stronger than life The only truth I know is the look in your eyes The look in your eyes! Just like a car crash, just like a knife My favorite weapon is the look in your eyes You ran out of lies!

You ran out of life! You ran out of lies! Get out of my life!

And I'm chewing on glass and tasting my fingers I'm not the one who's run out of lies, lies! You ran out of life! You ran out of time!

Judging my faith and walking on splinters I lost my soul to the look in your eyes Your eyes! You ran out of lies! Ran out of time... Stigmata! You ran out of lies!

Oh, you have empty eyes! (yes) Oh, you have empty lies! (yes) They told me nothing Nothing but lies! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck me! Fuck me! Fuck you! Fuck you! Fuck everyone! Fuck the church! Fuck Jesus! Fuck Mary! Fuck the Jews! Fuck the Bhuddists! Fuck the Hindus! Fuck George Bush! Fuck his ugly wife! Fuck Tipper Gore! Fuck everyone! Fuck Gorbachev! Fuck Noriega! Fuck all these assholes! Fuck you! Fuck me! Fuck all of you! Stigmata! Stigmata! Stigmata! Stigmata! They told me nothing but lies! Lies! Lies! Lies! Lies!

No, I don't support Israel. I think if I were an American citizen I would because you are subjected to 24/7/365 propaganda about Israel.

Israel kills 8 times as many Palestinian children as the other way around. Yet the American media gives 12 times as much coverage for an Israeli death as it does to a Palestinian one.

That's not to say Palestinians don't have enough blood on their own hands. But if you support either side in that conflict, you aren't the cure. You're the problem.

Well, I cannot say that I support Israel (), but I don't support Palestinians too. But we should look in past. There were never Israel state. It is created after second world war on initiative of UK. On the beginning Palestinians agree about that (even, nobody ask them anything) ... so what happen then ?! Palestinians want their country - what Israel want ?! I believe that Israeli government is really Zionist government, by all their previous acts... and let see that almost all Palestinians there live in some camps... I don't like terror - but time produce such things in such circumstances. I really hope that all this bad things will be finished one day (from my point - as soon as possible) and let all live in peace as we do before.