Russian programmers

Amen brother! Reason #4 is so true. I learned to reign in the urge to rewrite all of the crappy code I encounter at the client site. Took all but 10 years :)

I always enjoy reading your columns, Yakov. They are objective, unbiased, and succinctly present the facts. This article is no different.

In a global economy, and one that harnesses the global pool of workers, the competition is fierce. And it will keep getting fiercer as more and more countries upgrade their infrastructure and expose their educated population to the pool of world labor. It just means that today's workforce in our country would have to work harder than ever before to even keep up with this competition in the ever expanding labor pool. As you aptly point out, including accomplished russian workers to the programming pool will perhaps raise the bar for everyone else. All that remains is to provide them the right infrastructure support to fully harness their capability.

Very insightful. I've had the same experience with many Russian programmers - very arrogant. Glad to see things are changing. But one thing must be said: their math skills are head and shoulders above those of Americans! There is nothing as good as a Russian teacher of math for your kids!

I'm not one of these indian programmers who fit in your point- anywhere in the world sharing an apartment with five other programmers. Ha Ha Ha

I like the point you said that india is the largest democracy and advantage of indians is they speak english, but russian programmers lack somewhat in this, it is true to a certain extent

I know my friend India sucks.It is a pain to breath here

I found your article very nationalistic. It makes it sound like Indian companies get contracts just because they can speak english. But Russian workforce is the best and given the right circumstances, russians will take over the world of corporate software.

It sounds like an article by someone looking for trolls and not someone from the industry like you.

HC, not at all.

I did not even discuss how Indian get the contracts. They manage to survive after getting the contrats too, which means that most of them are good.

If you don't agree with my opinion, you should find better arguments. Russians won't take over the world of corporate software any time soon.

I'm indonesian, do you consider indonesian is as big as india :) well if you don't there is a reason. In short we're importing our developer into every corner of the world but still don't go too far, you'll know what I mean. If you're interested about the outsourcing culture of indonesia, just ask me.

I don't have anything against you. I follow your blog pretty regularly and enjoy it. But consider your quotes:

"While Russians are considered one of the top world coders"

"But many American corporations are still hiring cheap overseas labor just because it’s cheap. Many CIOs do not know about the real price they’re paying for such projects "

It just lends to the the conclusion that the current outsourcing folks are just cheap overseas labor which will be rooted out eventually to be replaced by the superior russian programmers. I don't have anything against russians or anyone. I work in an MNC and I have friends from other countries including Russia.

I just think the choice of words was poor, maybe unintentional, but poor nonetheless. And me being an Indian who's tired of all the anti-outsourcing crap from the likes of Lou Dobbs, Bill O' Reilly etc. Maybe I am being overly sensitive, but that's how I feel.

HC,

People have different experience. At the moment, I work on the project with an exellent programmer from Mumbai. But I've seen poor code writtn by offshore teams more often. In many cases, the outsourcing managers here in the USA are to blame. I wrote on this subject over here: http://jdj.sys-con.com/read/180348.htm

hi there,

• nice article.

• would be nice if an indian wrote one too about Indian Programmers -- i'll see if I can come up with one.

• as of now, the book "My Job Went to India" ("http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0976694018/103-6834889-4939830?v= glance&n=283155") , written by an US programmer (albeit one who spent a considerable time in India)

BR, ~A

See the problem with Russian programmers lie in the single sentence <People in India do not think that they are the best nation in the world, while many Russians still do>

Personally I dont belive that Russia is the best nation in the world.Russia is not a democratic country, Russians have to accept it.They are born racists and hypocrats.99% Russians belive that Americans are stupid, at the same time the country they wish to live is America itself, true hypocrats.So when these things are solved, Russians can consider to be superior to Chinese and Indians.So till them shut the F**K up

I have a few years of dealing with Russian coders, they lack vision, it is only when they grasp concept of what the world needs that they will become true ofrce to be rekond with.

Slava Boga

Yakov, you "may be" right in concluding that russian coders are top of the world. Have you thought about whether lot of stuff in the software industry currently being outsourced requires TOP CODERS FROM RUSSIA.

I am currently in INDIA and work on an outsourced project. The work I do is GUI testing which a school kid anywhere in the world can do. The trouble is that for doing this stuff Americans need to pay $70K in US, $40K in Russia and they pay $10K in INDIA.

So you see it's a question of where does your offerings fit in the real world.

PS: I consider INDIAN coders (who are actually doing cutting edge work) on par with the best in the world.

Regarding Russians being top-coders: I assume Russians are good coders. They sure are good hackers, but the site you are using to prove your opinion hardly reflects the truth. It only shows that many Russians participate in topcoder.com website. You won't see in this website the smaller countries that have excellent coders (like Ireland or Israel), also, the top US coders won't participate in this website, because most of them can earn more money working in a 'regular' job.

Regarding the IBM website: It is true that there was a big aliyah from former USSR to Israel during the 90's, and that many of the immigrants are smart folks with engineering degree. Still, I think that this could say something about Jewish immigrants to Israel, and not necessarily about Russians. Not to mention the fact that most current IBM workers who were born in former USSR got their university education in Israel .

A message Derek: Being full of hate wont get you far. Russians have been taught all of their lives that USSR is the best place in the world, but when they look at the reality, they see that both USSR is not perfect, nor the USA is. Most of the things they tell you about 'great life in Russia' are probably true in their perspective. It is the ideology boost they got from age 0, and the idealization of the past. I believe that the poison out of your keyboard is caused mainly by inferiority complex.

Finally I must say that I like this website.

Toda, Shalom.

--- Anna Bendersky, Haifa, Israel